Reader Mail: Time Immortal
tagged agnosticism, Andre Comte-Sponville, Aspentroll, astronomy, atheism, Beatitudes, biology, Buddhism, Burma, Canada, Catholicism, Chesterton, China, Christianity, Christopher Hitchens, David Warren, Earth, evolution, faith, geology, Hinduism, human rights, India, Islam, Mark Shea, North Korea, paganism, reason, Religion, Roger Daltry, Russia, Sam Harris, secularism, Sharia, Soviet Union, spirituality, Ten Commandments, the Bible, the Church and women
Another wave of atheists seems to be upon me; while I can’t quite set my watch by them, at least I can be assured that there will be periodic sources of content not related to doings on any other blog save this one, which I appreciate.
In this case, the amusingly-handled Aspentroll writes in with a few thoughts on this article.
“Atheism will endure, as it has for many ages now. But it will never dominate a free people, and in due course gives way to the spiritual. Falsehood must necessarily give way to truth in the end, or at least to a less severe falsehood.”
The word “atheism” above could be replaced by the word “Religion” or “Christianity” and the rest of the quote would be just as true.
Atheists believe that the Bible is a huge falsehood and to pattern your life on such a nebulous writing is in most cases dangerous. You cannot govern a country using the laws of the bible which seems to be what some “fundies” want. We would all be up in arms if Sharia Law was allowed in the US, because it is archaic and discriminatory against women and free thought.
Atheism, agnosticism and free thought is the only check and balance we have to keep overly zealous delusional people from taking over and spoiling what is a normal modern way of life.
Did the reader note the tacit suggestion that religious people are necessarily delusional? The footnote to this more recent article seems relevant to mention here.
A good first question I might ask is: what checks and balances exist to keep overly zealous atheists from taking over and spoiling what is a normal, modern way of life that, in the West at least (though it perhaps does not always realize it), benefits greatly from reserves of Christian moral capital built up over the centuries? History has demonstrated that those states which have made atheism an explicit policy of the state have inexorably become brutal and bloody-minded, and several examples of the trend persist to this day.
The Mark Shea article I cited previously addresses this point rather directly: it is within human nature to desire to believe, and when force of will fails to ensure that the populace does not stray back toward the spiritual, force of arms is a necessary recourse of the atheistic state. It might be easy to laugh this off as fallacy, but one observes that in the explicitly atheistic regimes in places such as the Soviet Union, Burma, China, and North Korea (an incomplete list of examples, but sufficient for our purposes) did have something of a penchant for murderously cracking down on spiritual movements and religions within their borders. Certain exceptions to the trend exist, of course, but only in those cases where the religion(s) in question — the Orthodox Church in Russia, the “Catholic” Church in China — has allowed itself to be co-opted by the state.
One possible objection is that the generally secular regimes in many Western nations do not actively persecute the religious faithful in their midst. While the statement about persecution is up for debate, it is generally true that secular Western states do not, at least, murderously persecute their religious citizens. But then, even in various Scandinavian nations, the secularism itself is not explicit state policy, and most of those states still acknowledge that there is a Christian aspect to their origins.
As to the quote of mine that Apentroll cites in opening his message, it should be observed that his attempt to gainsay it, in the first sentence of his response to me, really amounts to little more than saying “I know you are, but what am I?” Although it sounds more reasonable than that on the surface — heck, it even sounds somewhat rational — the statement itself can be revealed to be something of a patent falsehood, on several levels, upon closer examination.
First off, Christianity’s aim — and the aim of true religion (as opposed to the various false teachings one can stumble across from time to time*) — is freedom. And by freedom, I don’t mean being free “from rules of conduct or social constraints” (as the all-too talented authors of the character of Durandal in the Marathon series of games so eloquently word it). I do, however, mean being free “to understand, to imagine, to make metaphor.”
Freethinking, a misnomer if ever there was one, actually ruins freedom. “Freethinkers supposedly want “the pursuit of ideas for their own sake,” but no one pursues ideas simply for their own sake, but in order to understand, to act or to believe, or to have some combination of these. Men pursue ideas so that they may understand the world, and they seek to understand the world to have wisdom. Men desire wisdom in order to live well, and part of living well is to pursue and know the Good, and the Good is that which fulfills human nature and causes it to flourish. The desire to know is a natural desire, one implanted in us as part of our created being; we yearn to know and to enter into the unknown because we yearn for unity with the One Who desires that all things be united in Him. If no religion had ever caused men to live virtuously and flourish, religion would have disappeared ages ago. If no religion had produced saints and cultivated the finest aspects of human nature, very few would adhere themselves to it and even then it would only be the mad and obsessive. There is nothing interesting in rehearsing the catalogue of crimes that religious adherents have committed against each other, since men have always been slaughtering and oppressing one another and they have tended to do more of it when they are less in thrall to their religious tradition than when they are strictly obedient to it. What is remarkable is how much at least some religions have contributed to the civilisation and edification of men, which would hardly seem probable if they were not much more than elaborate exercises in self-deception and nonsense.”
One point, in particular, that can be taken out of the above quotation is that “we yearn to know and to enter into the unknown because we yearn for unity with the One Who desires that all things be united in Him.” It is the result of no accident that science and discovery flourished in the Christian West after ending up misfiring almost everywhere else in the world (historically speaking). As David Warren notes, “[to] those who know some history, the modern sciences emerged in an unambiguously Christian milieu. They flourished, over centuries in the West, as the direct result of the Judaeo-Christian teaching that “God does not contradict Himself.” The whole notion of unalterable physical laws, and thus a universal order that will repay inquiry, is the product of a theological position unique to the West. It is a view that has been glimpsed in other civilizations, but could only be doggedly pursued in this one. Science was stillborn in all other civilizations.”
And the same is true of the wider concept of freedom. Nowhere else in the world, save in a West born out of Christendom, did the concept of human freedom, individual liberty, and human rights genuinely flourish. It did not, certainly, flourish in the Islamic world, nor in the castes of Hinduism in India, nor in any of the places where Buddhism took hold, nor in…any other place, really, save for the West that Christendom birthed. Indeed, the ideas that man should be free and that all men are “equal” is, ultimately, only defensible from within a teleological framework, and then a Christian teleology.
And in the numerous examples one could draw out of the 19th and 20th centuries, one can observe that in those regimes where atheism has, so to speak, become the law of the land, not only has human freedom been impaired and/or outright trampled on, but so too has science, to say nothing of human rights.
Now, I will grant that I stand in agreement with Aspentroll’s objetion to governance by “fundies” — fundamentalism leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Equally, though, I don’t think that society has any right to demand that a politician leave his Christianity at the door when he takes office.
Atheists are welcome to consider the Bible a book of falsehoods; I consider it God’s inerrant, infallible revelation to the world**. Who is to say which of us is right? I will grant that many, many people have a poor understanding of exactly what the Bible teaches, and fundamentalists seem especially prone to this unfortunate reality. But is it genuinely dangerous to pattern one’s life on the core teachings of Scripture? Exactly how terrible a place would the world be to live in if we all actually followed what Christ taught? Exactly how terrible a place would the world be to live in if everyone followed, as a bare minimum, the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes, and patterned their lives on the concepts articulated therein?
I very much doubt it would be a perfect place to live in…but I’ve no doubt that it would be a much better world. But then, Chesterton had it exactly right when he noted that “the Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult, and left untried.”
I also agree with Aspentroll that it would be horrible if Islamic sharia law became the law of the land, in Canada or anywhere else. I suspect that Aspentroll, however, has temporarily taken leave of reason and erroneously assumes that because some types of religious law are brutal and evil, all forms of religious law must necessarily also be brutal and evil. It’s a rather common logical fallacy among atheists to assert this — Christopher Hitchens is particularly vulnerable to it.
The main problem with the assertion is that a thing may be true even if certain individuals don’t accept it as being true. This is easily understood in the case of the fundamentalist objection to e.g. the theory of evolution and the geological research that has revealed the approximate age of the Earth. Young Earth Creationism insists, passionately, that Earth is a mere 6,000 years old, and most creationists of this bent do not accept as truthful or valid the various discoveries made in the fields of geology, astronomy, and evolutionary biology (among others). That doesn’t mean that the theories and discoveries aren’t true, however.
The same is true in regard to atheistic assertions regarding religions. Aspentroll would hardly be the first atheist to look at, say, the evils perpetrated in the name of Islam and declare that all religions are murderous death cults obsessed with paedophilia and suicide belts. That might come as news to Buddhists, and indeed to most Christians, but not everyone can be counted on to let facts get in the way of good rhetoric, especially if it sells books with provocative titles. And yet, a more reasonable, rational person would notice that there are many critical differences between, say, Islam and Catholicism, visible both by a close analysis of doctrine and by taking an honest, objective look at the actions of the followers of each respective faith on a global scale.
As previously noted, the creature we call a human being is wired to be a believer, and the only real question is what said human being will believe in. We’ve seen this played out through history, and we see its logical consequences played out in that movement which denies this very aspect of human nature: atheism. In individual atheists like Sam Harris or Andre Comte-Sponville, we see the beginnings of post-atheistic spiritualism beginning to creep in. The same trend can be observed in Russia, in the wake of the collapse of an explicitly atheistic regime. It’s regrettable that the spirituality that such people are gravitating towards is, quite often, some new form of paganism (or “new” in that Roger Daltry “same as the old boss” sense of the word), although it is good that people are also finding, or rediscovering, the Church.
There seems to be a rather pernicious lie going around that religion and freedom are antithetical to one another; this is not completely true. It is true in regard to specific religions (e.g. Islam), but not in regard to the Christian truth. Indeed, it was a particularly Christian sense of telos that informed the very constraints, concepts, and ideals which enabled the West to value freedom. By contrast, the application of atheistic ideals as the formative values of a state has tended to be the true antithesis of freedom, of science, and of human rights.
And in perhaps the most amusingly ironic twist, I just realized that if I re-worded Aspentroll’s message to me and flipped the references to religion and atheism in every instance (and substituted the title of any New Atheist tract for “the bible”), the message itself would not only be a lot more truthful, but also a lot more historically defensible.
* this statement said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek
Like putting Mike Tyson in charge of anger management classes
tagged biology, evolution, geology, God, HRC, human rights and human rights commission
The investigators and “judges” of the human rights commissions come from many professions, hardly any of which have anything to do with the field of human rights law. There are nurses and aldermen, divorce lawyers and air force officers. And that’s good for them — those are all valuable jobs that serve a purpose in society (I make exception here for divorce lawyers).
In apologetics circles, there’s a little charge that I sometimes level at various atheistic commentators to whom I’m responding. Indeed, I’ve lambasted my cousin with it as well. It’s a serious charge in a debate — abuse of academic authority. It’s all well and good that, for example, a geologist thinks that the theory of evolution disproves the notion of God…but geology and biology are different categories of study, and being a highly skilled geologist does not mean that one is also a highly skilled biologist. Moreover, neither geology nor biology are theological disciplines, and so cannot and (ostensibly) do not concern themselves with the existence/non-existence of the divine. And no amount of academic credentials in any discipline means that one should be listened to (without an appropriate quantity of salt grains) when one is talking about matters outside the realm of one’s credentials.
And yet, that very mentality would seem to pervade the human rights commissions and the people who staff them. It would be absurd to suggest that an air force pilot or a nurse be allowed to preside over a criminal trial in the role of judge, but evidently the same high standards (as regards competent, qualified persons filling important roles affecting the well-being and freedoms of others) are not applied to the HRCs.
It’s like every time someone digs this hole a bit deeper, the whole mess gets scarier by orders of magnitude.
Update: Welcome, Steynians!
The truly scary thing about pro-choicers
tagged abortion, biology, fetus, gestation, homo sapiens, human, pro-choice, pro-death, pro-life, unborn and women
What [pro-lifers] seem to have failed to recognize, therefore, at least with the necessary clarity, is that the humanity or inhumanity of the fetus is often no longer the issue - at least, not within the elite spheres of the pro-death movement…Agreed. I once interviewed a woman working in an abortion clinic. Our conversation became more heated (not good) and I spluttered something along these lines of “Don’t you know what the fetus is?” She in turn rolled her eyes at me and said “Of course. You think I don’t know? You think women don’t know?”
So it was then that I realized there are two types of pro-choice people: Those who naively believe the fetus is not a person until a certain magical moment in gestation and those who know the fetus is human from day one but don’t care.
As I’ve remarked before, the abortion debate is no longer about whether or not the unborn are human being — that particular question can be (and has been) put to rest, as any student of biology at even a high school level should be able to realize. That an unborn baby is both human (that is, of the species homo sapiens) and alive follows logically from the observation that a newborn baby is a) human (that is, of the species homo sapiens), and b) alive.
What the abortion debate has turned into, then (or, perhaps, what it was always about) is at what stage of development/life it is socially/morally/legally acceptable to kill a living human being. That’s all it comes down to. And for many women (and men), there is seemingly no problem with saying that it is acceptable to kill a human being during the gestational phase of its life. The fact that it is a human being is irrelevant to them. The fact that it is alive is irrelevant to them, except in the sense that its being alive is the problem to begin with. The fact that it is genetically distinct from either of its parents (that is: it is its own person) is irrelevant.
“Human” and “alive” are not, to some pro-choicers, sufficient categories to merit a right to life. To merit a right to life, something which is “human” and “alive” must also be “wanted” and, legally speaking, “a person.”
And that’s the scary part. Because we’ve heard that kind of talk before. And we know where it led.
Schoolkids in California get to decide their own gender
tagged , anatomy, biology, California, Education Code 212, gender, homosexual agenda, homosexuality, Senate Bill 777 and sex
And of course, parents aren’t to be informed about which gender their child decides s/he “really” is.
Forget everything you learned in kindergarten about the difference between boys and girls. According to Gov. Schwarzenegger and the California Legislature, schoolchildren can now choose their own sex.
I’m not talking about choosing “sexual behavior or sexual preferences.” Kids are going to be taught that they have the right to completely ignore their physical anatomy and choose the status of being “male” or “female.” [ ... ]
In October, California Senate Bill 777 was signed into law. Senate Bill 777 eliminates Education Code 212, which currently defines “sex” as “the biological condition or quality of being a male or female human being.” And worse yet, SB 777 redefines the term “gender” for all schoolchildren by adding Education Code 210.7, which will read: “‘Gender’ means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.” In short, this redefinition of gender states that you are what you choose to be regardless of your anatomical make-up.
Damnnable biology and anatomy…how sexist is nature? By causing children to develop sexual characteristics within the womb, thus denying them their right to choose that gender when in kindergarten, nature inflicts catastrophic damage on each and every child’s psyche, gender identity, and self-respect.
The Los Angeles Unified School District has already adopted policies allowing boys to use girls’ restrooms and locker rooms —- and vice versa!
Oh, yes…that isn’t going to get abused, is it?
This is agenda, pure and simple, and can have either or both of two intentions behind it. The first — and more dire, in my opinion — possibility is that this half-baked idea is being encouraged by homosexual lobby groups seeking to indoctrinate and recruit more children into the homosexual lifestyle. The second possibility is that this is a concerted effort by the California government and a collection of various interest groups to break down all sexual codes of ethics, to encourage children to engage in experimental sexual escapades with little or no regard to age or gender of participants.
I mean, hey…why not give boys and girls the opportunity to strip down in the same locker room? Who would ever worry that they might take the opportunity to hook up for a quickie? What could possibly go wrong in this paradigm?





